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Post by New Socialistia on Apr 22, 2014 22:29:21 GMT
So, a new continent has been created, and a colonization thread is required by PANCAKES. I have already deployed a monitor with troops to begin colonization. Does anybody else want a claim? Splitting the continent 2 or 3-way is probably ideal, but 4/5-way is possible but not how I would do it. If we do a 2/3-way split, perhaps we could disallow those nations from colonizing the next continent?
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Post by unicornnation on Apr 22, 2014 23:02:07 GMT
I would like a part of this continent, as I have expressed previously in pms to you. I'll be sending troops shortly.
EDIT: I've landed units on the continent, and taken one square of land. This is just temporary, as I'm open to any split of the continent, as long as I'm given a piece.
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Post by Birger on Apr 23, 2014 8:52:35 GMT
Just like that? Shouldn't we at least attempt contact with the natives before steamrolling them?
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Post by unicornnation on Apr 23, 2014 14:15:46 GMT
Just like that? Shouldn't we at least attempt contact with the natives before steamrolling them? If you want me to pull my troops out, I can. For now, though, I'm taking control of at least some land there.
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Post by New Socialistia on Apr 23, 2014 16:28:34 GMT
I need rubber and oil. The new nations I tried negotiating with in the past refuse to give the resources for military supplies. Also, I need more GDP to support my industry. 5 of every military factory (except for artillery, I have 10 of those) have taken a toll on my stability.
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Post by natotropolis on Apr 23, 2014 20:44:15 GMT
I am not sure that we should just invade before even trying to negotiate with the locals. If we find out who is inactive we can split their land between us and the active players. Just invading them and wiping them out instantly seems unfair.
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Post by CaptainMeme on Apr 23, 2014 20:45:16 GMT
I think this is more of a game design fault than something that can be helped by players. The problem is that there is no way to obtain land (hence resources and GDP) without taking it from another nation. Since newer nations are the easiest to take land from, they immediately get attacked when they spawn in.
This is a really bad design flaw. It could be easily solved in two ways - noob protection (where a continent is unable to be travelled to by any outside nations for a number of turns after spawning) or land that spawns without having an owner, which would be the approach I would favour.
The way I see this, most players who are alive now joined in one of three eras - the first was the initial group of players, from the first few (maybe 10?) continents. At this point nobody was much stronger than anybody else, and so everyone had a decent chance at surviving if they negotiated. The second was during the 'boom' period, when this was posted to several subreddits. During this time, a lot of players created accounts but then immediately left, meaning the remaining players had easier starts and, because continents were spawning so quickly and there was so much land that could be gained uncontested, the stronger players from the first era did not wipe them out instantly. The third era there are very few players from, because the land is contested heavily by the stronger players, and so, unless they can find shelter in a stronger alliance (this doesn't seem to happen often, as the alliances often have a vested interest in killing off newer players due to alliance members needing the resources, and if someone else is taking those resources alliances often have no interest in potentially starting a war with a stronger player in aid of a new one) or the people who are busy conquering their continents are open to negotiation (which not many are). I have partaken in taking land from third era nations and eliminating them before they have a chance to grow, as I think have most other first and second era nations, but this isn't healthy for the game if we want it to grow. It's stopping new players from playing completely - in essence, limiting the ability to play this game to those who registered early, or personal friends of alliance members (as these are the most likely to be accepted into an alliance, making them the only third era players likely to survive).
This is not a good state of affairs at all, and I have given it some thought and come up with the following solution:
There's nothing in the rules about creating multiple accounts. Obviously, using those accounts to gain an advantage is not allowed (as has been shown by the Pinyin affair), but I will not be doing so.
My plan is to create a number of accounts per phase (not sure how many atm - not too many as I do not want to destroy the conflict element of the game) called NULL, NULL 1, NULL 2, NULL 3 etc. These nations will never create any units, and their land is essentially neutral and open for anyone to take.
I also propose that all new players have honour-based noob protection. All players barring new ones (obviously we want to preserve the initial continent conflict between new nations, so this proposal does not apply to new players from the same continent) must leave any new (non-NULL) player alone for 3 phases after they spawn. If they have not built any units or attempted to negotiate with anyone then they can then be attacked by anyone - otherwise, they must be left alone for either at least 3 phases after they have become inactive (if they do so), or at least 7 phases after the initial noob protection finishes if they do not become inactive.
Obviously this would all significantly alter the game dynamics, so I'd appreciate everyone else's opinions on whether this should be done. Thoughts?
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Post by lustria on Apr 23, 2014 21:10:54 GMT
I think this is more of a game design fault than something that can be helped by players. The problem is that there is no way to obtain land (hence resources and GDP) without taking it from another nation. Since newer nations are the easiest to take land from, they immediately get attacked when they spawn in. This is a really bad design flaw. It could be easily solved in two ways - noob protection (where a continent is unable to be travelled to by any outside nations for a number of turns after spawning) or land that spawns without having an owner, which would be the approach I would favour. The way I see this, most players who are alive now joined in one of three eras - the first was the initial group of players, from the first few (maybe 10?) continents. At this point nobody was much stronger than anybody else, and so everyone had a decent chance at surviving if they negotiated. The second was during the 'boom' period, when this was posted to several subreddits. During this time, a lot of players created accounts but then immediately left, meaning the remaining players had easier starts and, because continents were spawning so quickly and there was so much land that could be gained uncontested, the stronger players from the first era did not wipe them out instantly. The third era there are very few players from, because the land is contested heavily by the stronger players, and so, unless they can find shelter in a stronger alliance (this doesn't seem to happen often, as the alliances often have a vested interest in killing off newer players due to alliance members needing the resources, and if someone else is taking those resources alliances often have no interest in potentially starting a war with a stronger player in aid of a new one) or the people who are busy conquering their continents are open to negotiation (which not many are). I have partaken in taking land from third era nations and eliminating them before they have a chance to grow, as I think have most other first and second era nations, but this isn't healthy for the game if we want it to grow. It's stopping new players from playing completely - in essence, limiting the ability to play this game to those who registered early, or personal friends of alliance members (as these are the most likely to be accepted into an alliance, making them the only third era players likely to survive). This is not a good state of affairs at all, and I have given it some thought and come up with the following solution: There's nothing in the rules about creating multiple accounts. Obviously, using those accounts to gain an advantage is not allowed (as has been shown by the Pinyin affair), but I will not be doing so. My plan is to create a number of accounts per phase (not sure how many atm - not too many as I do not want to destroy the conflict element of the game) called NULL, NULL 1, NULL 2, NULL 3 etc. These nations will never create any units, and their land is essentially neutral and open for anyone to take. I also propose that all new players have honour-based noob protection. All players barring new ones (obviously we want to preserve the initial continent conflict between new nations, so this proposal does not apply to new players from the same continent) must leave any new (non-NULL) player alone for 3 phases after they spawn. If they have not built any units or attempted to negotiate with anyone then they can then be attacked by anyone - otherwise, they must be left alone for either at least 3 phases after they have become inactive (if they do so), or at least 7 phases after the initial noob protection finishes if they do not become inactive. Obviously this would all significantly alter the game dynamics, so I'd appreciate everyone else's opinions on whether this should be done. Thoughts? I am in full support of the idea of noob protection. I suggest that we add it to the pancakes treaty that we shall protect any new member for 5 turns providing they are not a null member. If they do not prove to be active they are fair game, however if they do prove to be active they are given another 10 turns. I propose a new section be added to the forum when disusing this and where we can add new players to it as we see then update it every 5 turns as to who is now fair game and take them off the list .
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Post by templars on Apr 23, 2014 21:32:30 GMT
I also support the idea of noob protection. Perhaps though, instead of turns, it could be done on how recent the continent is, for simplicity's sake. Action on the 2 most recent continents could be forbidden, for example. I think this would make the condition much easier to police. However, I have a question: would foreign intervention of other kinds be allowed with respect to 'noob' states? That's to say, could I send a 'noob' state who joined my alliance loads of arms? I can see the advantages of allowing, or of banning it,but it might be something worth considering if noob protection is to work.
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Post by New Socialistia on Apr 24, 2014 1:31:51 GMT
I'll go set up a poll for this amendment. I like the "most recent continents" idea better than the turn-based one and, as a neutral, am against sending any weapons for the same period that the noob protection lasts. EDIT: Place your votes!
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Post by unicornnation on Apr 30, 2014 4:21:30 GMT
New Socialistia, you have seized a square of land from Latveria on C 68. As Latveria is a member of my alliance, I would like to request that you give it back. It is currently occupied by your unit Colonial Cavalry. If you could do anything about that, it would be very helpful.
Thanks, Unicorn Nation
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Post by New Socialistia on Apr 30, 2014 22:12:46 GMT
Done. Tile should be ceded back now.
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Post by unicornnation on May 1, 2014 1:03:18 GMT
Also, I would like to mention the aggression of The Palatinate. I previously asked him to remain peaceful with Latveria. However, he has not responded to my messages, and is moving a force to their border. I have troops on route, and would just like to mention that if it comes to that, this is the reason for my aggression against him.
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Post by New Socialistia on May 1, 2014 1:13:58 GMT
I have all of the oil that I need for my defense project now, so my colonization is done.
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Post by unicornnation on May 1, 2014 2:48:29 GMT
My colonization will be done as soon as BANNANA is passed. Also, the issue with The Palatinate has been resolved peacefully.
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